It’s time once again for Ol’ Petey’s famous Levitan voice (with some light adnotations). Let’s do this :
mircea_popescu: (pro tip, if your idea is “but MP, Tor was actually built by NSA, this thing is just built by some random poor people” you lose at life. What the fuck, the socialists observe propriety lines now ? The whole world was made by their hunchback of a God and gave to them as a gift dontchaknow.)
asciilifeform: This is a mega-observation, and summarizes why I have 0 interest in involvement in non-TMSR ‘open sores’ ever again. Y’know how RMS et al used to say ‘publishing without gnu is same as working for microshit for free’ ? Well, same idea.
danielpbarron: Gabrieli should make his case to get listed on MPEx.ii
asciilifeform: I’d recommend to him to first solve his house and food problems. Would you pay a man to build reactor if his toilet ~never works ?
thestringpuller: Depends on if he’s a nuclear engineer pretending to be a plumber or vice versa.
asciilifeform: Does not depend. Is invariant.
thestringpuller: It was a joke :P (not a good one).
mircea_popescu: I see it pretty much the same way. I have just about 0 interest in working for any of the various cans of USG soup. Pre TMSR, I actually didn’t work much if at all, and in retrospect I understand it’s for this exact reason.
asciilifeform: Same reason, really, why slave labourer in Birkenau would fuck off at the conveyor whenever he could.
mircea_popescu: I dun think it ever took me more than a few days to pay for a month of costa rica or whatever, and this if I was particularly persuaded by the “don’t eat from capitals” balabustaiii angle that month. In contrast, for the past SIX FUCKING YEARS I’ve been pulling 100 hour weeks like nobody’s business. And if we count those hours at the 100k estimate,iv TMSR did more for increasing worldwide productivity than feminism.
asciilifeform: ‘Motivation from fear is a firecracker, from interest – a nuke’ as the Americans used to say.
mircea_popescu: Aha. What the fuck am I going to be afraid of. That’s the other problem there. Motivation of random retard – from fear, firecracker, from interest, nuke. When you go above 95 on the IQ scale, what the everloving fuck are you going to put in your firecracker even.v
asciilifeform: Saying originally referred to the comparatively laughable output of wage slaves, vs. folk who do ~same thing out of actual interest.
mircea_popescu: There’s two married exponentials at work here, and the 2nd’s even more abrupt.
asciilifeform: Incidentally the traditional interpretation — ‘Wage slave will exam-optimize and do the bare minimal job’ is IMHO woefully incomplete: the main problem with him is that he is not free to decide that the ~job per se~ is braindamaged and to not do it at all.
mircea_popescu: I wouldn’t trust his decision. that’s the point : under 110 or so, you are well advised to not even think about making these sorts of calls. This of course comes with a corresponding responsibility of smart people to not be fucking retards, but hey.
asciilifeform: Wage worker, whether idiot or grandmaster, is still stuck ‘only following orders.’
mircea_popescu: Wage worker grandmaster ? What’s this, like engineering ?
asciilifeform: Yeah yeah on mircea_popescu’s planet they dun have this, all smart folks sit in recliners and get hand-fed grapes by harembots while idiots labour.
mircea_popescu: Look, it’s not my fault that a) they misapplied the model and b) you bought into it. But this “wage working engineer” makes 0 sense. It only exists because of JWZ training of smart kids, making them want to “cleave” brains and responsibility.
asciilifeform: … who misapplied which model ?
mircea_popescu: The whole capitalism / industrialism model works on the following principle : idiots (by which we mean virtually everyone) are overwhelmed by the complexity of reality, and so resort to societal heuristics. Such as you know, “religion”, or else “all girls” agreeing that sucking cock is gross in 9th grade and that only farmhands and mongoloids wouldn’t do it in 12th grade. These heuristics are weak, and an intelligent guy can find a much better blueprint in circumscribed circumstances than the heuristic would provide (the circumstance has to always be limited because otherwise complexity explosion – which yields the principal problem of capitalism, ie disintergration (as the term of art)). Now then. Giving intelligent people a tool to break idiots from the social fold (ie, money) results in all sorts of minimums off the wealth-curve (very much like the Schroedinger equation, this) being cut off, resulting in more money, resulting in more ships, resulting in conquering China. This is the whole premise of capitalism : dear retard, don’t listen to what the priest says to do ; but listen to what the rich guy says to do. And hence all the “morals” debate of 1600s and 1700s. This model is built on some axioms. One of which is “dumb people”. Not smart people. The moment you turn around and try to apply it to engineers you plainly demonstrate you have absolutely no connection to the people who come up with this, but merely cargo cultist, following motions. Which is why the guy gives the girl money in http://trilema.com/2014/the-romanian-language-for-other-people/ but he doesn’t pay Cristiana in http://trilema.com/2016/il-magnifico-cornuto/vi
asciilifeform: The setting has 0 connection to the people who came up with it also. I.e. modern USD is not the pound sterling of 1700.
asciilifeform: So why does it surprise mircea_popescu if folks won’t follow a heuristic that was devised in a world which no longer exists ..?
mircea_popescu: I dunno dude, does Ancient Greece still exist ? Seems GCD worked just fine for us.
asciilifeform: GCD still works because – fortunately – nobody cancelled, yet, the integers.
mircea_popescu: Nobody cancelled the wealth curve either, nor the ships and conquer China. These aren’t cancellable.
asciilifeform: They are cancellable in the same way surface deposits of copper were cancelled.
mircea_popescu: Nope. They are not cancellable at all ; not even in the same way plants are cancellable.vii
asciilifeform: Conquest in the old “Rape’N’Pillage” sense may be good clean fun, but no longer economically +EV.viii
mircea_popescu: Conquer China wasn’t that.
asciilifeform: Which, then. Conquest in the “Now they’ll work all day for half a bowl of rice and an opium cig” sense ?
mircea_popescu: No, more in the sense of “Now they’ll either wear suits or come up with complicated arguments as to why they aren’t, because either way they very deeply care”. Let’s read together from http://trilema.com/2016/mochila-o-muerte/ : “many of the most beautiful Jewesses – adults and adolescents, some already naked and others in various states of undress – came out of the ghetto ~on their own volition~ and ~~~offered themselves~~~.” History of China throughout the 1900s is exactly this : came out of ghetto, of own volition, and offered self. The experience is, of course, massively beneficial.ix Moreover, it’s also the only way.
asciilifeform: I may be thick, but I do not see how this can be applied by engineer.
mircea_popescu: Well, there’s also no rush.
asciilifeform: Engineer should be also a capitalist, ought to build ships for his own use instead of some Jew’s ? Easier said, than done.x (in fact, i know of no case where it was done as pictured above. e.g., westinghouse, stopped being engineer quite certainly before becoming successful capitalist.)
mircea_popescu: “I am an engineer” “Good for you” “But I’m poor” “Then you aren’t an engineer ?” “No, I am, it’s just… the environment I come from doesn’t allow for engineers. This world is so unfair!” “So then… by coming from an environment that doesn’t allow for an engineer, you…aren’t one ?” “NO SEE, ENVIOUS RAGE! OTHER PEOPLE ARE IN HEAVEN AND I AM IN HELL!!”
asciilifeform: ‘Немного обидно, что строят одни, А в море уходят другие.’ ™ (r) re: ship.xi
mircea_popescu: Tell you what, contrary to what russian speakers thought, Soviet Union contained no engineers, no teachers, naught else. Just whores. Some whores who knew they were whores, and some whores who wasted their life pretending they aren’t whores.
asciilifeform: Dunno that industrial ‘civilization’ contains much else besides whores and their patrons.
mircea_popescu: “Modern Democracy” shall we call it likely doesn’t.
asciilifeform: “I’m engineer” “But you’re poor, fuck off” “I’ma doctor” “You’re poor, piss off” “I’ma steel magnate” “Lockheed paid you in IOUs, buzz off” “I’ma …”
mircea_popescu: Heh. Wait till you get into the “I’m an webentrepreneurdesignmarketing” like Pim Kim what’s her face.xii
asciilifeform: The “real deals” live, largely, in imagination, now.
mircea_popescu: Not so. Etherape. The real deals walk the same information superhighway as everyone else.
asciilifeform: “I’ma pirate.” “Finally, real pro.”xiii
mircea_popescu: “Oh but if I had a better car then definitely gf”, sayz Elliot. And I’m sure he’s right hurr.xiv As ridiculous as it sounds, it’s true. The world’s upside down, I will not trust an “honest man” because, simply put, “What exactly is supposed to protect Gabriel’s present infatuation from being Applebaum’d in the arbitrary future ?” Lawbreaker (unrepentant) at least provides personal history to back up his independence claim.
asciilifeform: This is a consistent algo, and has history, but also obvious limitations.
mircea_popescu: Wasn’t proposing it as an algo, mere eg. Trust algos are a suspect field.
asciilifeform: (E.g., actual pirates, had considerable problem recruiting and keeping medic. To the point that it became SOP to capture one and let him go immediately when replacement is found.)
mircea_popescu: Which is pretty much how medicine entirely works now.
asciilifeform: And when something cannot be plundered, one is stuck with what can be produced on a pirate ship.
mircea_popescu: Nah, they had ports throughout – the Indian Ocean for the Portuguese ; the Atlantic for the English.
asciilifeform: While the fun lasted – yes.
mircea_popescu: It lasted more than London lasted, on average. And honestly, if I lived in 1700 I’d have lived in pirate port.
asciilifeform: Who wouldn’t want to live in pirate port, lol
mircea_popescu: Many sorts of people.
mod6: Lot of trades
asciilifeform: Well for that matter i have trouble picturing a mircea_popescu circa 1700 anywhere other than on proper pirate ~ship~
mircea_popescu: Why ? i’m not that great a fan of the sea.
asciilifeform: Hm. Port, then.
mircea_popescu: See ? :p
___ ___ ___
- Aka “gabriel_laddel” aka “g_l” aka “I’m homeless in Cali and can’t get my keys atm so please to $up” aka “Ima get rich off selling uberlinux” etc etc. [↩]
- Why list on MPEx, you ask ? Ask, and ye shall receive. [↩]
- A Yiddish expression describing a good homemaker, esp. among Ashkenazim. Sounds a hell of a lot like “ball buster” doesn’t it. [↩]
- This $100k per hour estimate comes from the CIA Factbook, such as it is. [↩]
- This is exactly, and I do mean ~exactly~ the problem with the whole social sciences fraud of “incentivising” this, that, and the other thing through various and sundry public policy mechanisms. Bitch, what the fuck kind of motivation could “the community” possibly hope to offer the best and brightest OTHER THAN GETTING THE FUCK OUT OF THE WAY. So it is that the best public policy decision that most bureaucrats can make is to shut the fuck up, drink their Tim Horton’s double-double, and shuffle papers from one side of their desks to the other all the live long day until they either die of paper cuts, die of boredom, or die by the hand of the angry, cheated mob who finally said enough is enough of these slothful, sinful devils… OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!!1
Public policy might be able to “incentivise” beings of average or below average intelligence, but honestly where’s the challenge in that ? Give ‘em Candy Crush and walk away. But more to the point, what’s the point in that ? Your society – whether you like it or not – is defined by how high it allows the strongest to climb, not how tolerable it makes life for ingrates. [↩]
- Both are recommended reading. [↩]
- This seems to be a reference to the oft-cited stat by guilty globalists that “99.99% of all species that have ever lived are currently extinct” with the unmentioned implication that humans had best “smarten up” vis-a-vis their environmental impact, fossil fuel burning, etc. lest we “destroy ourselves,” as if that’s what happened to the dinosaurs. They brought that asteroid upon themselves! They like so totally were asking for it and Hashem delivered!! As always!!!1 Or something to that effect. [↩]
- Game theory. Read about it. [↩]
- Just ask the fuerdai. [↩]
- So is presenting oneself nude! [↩]
- (Very) rough translation : “It’s a bit of a pity to build alone while others go to sea.” [↩]
- Pim Kim is some whiny ho who almost certainly breached her SV employer’s confidentiality contract recently by blogging about internal procedures on her “personal” site (aka something exactly like Medium but “different”). More’s in the logs, if you must. [↩]
- LOL! I can’t quite begin to explain why I find this line so funny, but I do. That Alf gets me sometimes. [↩]
- The Elliot kid already drove his old man’s newer Beamer. Pro tip : if that’s not enough to get you laid, it’s not the car. [↩]